Sekulow

Logan Sekulow: In a surprising move, the Supreme Court leaker investigation heats up.
Mike Pompeo: Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Seculo. We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host, Logan Seculo.
Logan Sekulow: Welcome to Seculo Friday, folks. We made it here November 6th. Will Haynes in studio. We're going to be joined a little bit later on by Mike Pompeo. It's going to be a pretty packed show, but we do have time for your phone calls at 1-800-684-3110. And covering sort of a breaking news item that's happening right now that doesn't necessarily have to directly tie to the elections. Thank God, we have something else we can talk about, but it does tie into maybe election-related issues. And that was that the Justice Department has stepped up the criminal inquiry currently on the Supreme Court leak over the Dobbs decision. Remember the decision that overturned Roe versus Wade. So again, this happened. If you don't remember, just a quick refresher, just a few months before that decision was made public, a working draft that was largely similar to what ended up being the finished product was leaked by um the press. We don't know who leaked it, how it got there. That has been always something, though there have been suspicions. That has been something that has been talked about for the last few years now of how this happened. This massive breach of confidence that would have happened within the largely protected Supreme Court of the United States, one of the most uh you know there it's very rare. Now we're hearing them you know show up on press, but in those times, even a couple of years ago, before all of this started happening, you never heard from Supreme Court justices. It was a bit uh secretive, a bit quiet and private. But then of course, this draft leaked, which then ended up in death threats, firebomb threats to these homes of the Supreme Court justices that were more on the conservative side of this. And we all know how things have played out over the last few years. Now uh the my thoughts that they had they had largely closed the issue and we were never going to find out. But now it seems like things are ramping up.
Will Haynes: That 's right. So there was an internal inquiry at the Supreme Court. They they have their own police force, they have security, things of that nature. And they they looked into it in the court, but no public leaker was ever identified. What we're hearing now is that the DOJ, and this is being led by US Attorney for Washington, Janine Pierro, is is conducting and pursuing a criminal investigation into the leak. But this is where it gets interesting because uh one the they aren't even publicly saying, which is normal, but what crimes could be pursued or were at potentially broken here. Now there are several that could be relevant that have a five-year statute of limitations. 20 uh 2022 is when this happened. You would be approaching a statute of limitations uh as we are now towards the end of 2026. You're looking at running up on that soon. But at the same time, it does raise some constitutional issues here because the Department of Justice, being a part of the executive branch, which investigates crime and and brings charges, would be bringing a charge about something that happened in another branch of government's own house per as it were. And if that could even raise questions about, you know, at the end of the day, if it was charged in federal court and it was appealed up, the Supreme Court could potentially hear an appeal of something that was a crime against them internally. There's a lot of questions here, a lot of interesting uh angles to examine. We're going to get into that, but it's as even the Supreme Court has come back into focus in light of the midterms because of if there are replacements on the courts and things of that nature.
Logan Sekulow: Yeah. It's interesting when you think of it being a federal law, you think it would in fact be a federal crime. But is it more just a failable offense, I guess, if you will uh breaking like I said the confidence of your workplace? Beyond that, what do you think? What do you think it should be? What should be the If they do identify the leaker, what are the consequences legally? And then what are the consequences, I guess you should say morally? The fact that this was got out there and of course caused havoc and death threats to Supreme Court justices and everything that has played out over the last few years. 1-800-684-3110. Wrapping up your Friday strong. Be a part of the organization today. I'm going to ask you not only to be a part and help us wrap up this week strong, but to stand strong. I know this week, look, you you've taken a few bruises. You got knocked down, but it's time to stand strong and have your donations doubled as well because look, we know again it's a tough time, but we're going to continue fighting. You know what? We had our couple days. Shake it off, dust your shoulders off. And let's go to aclj.org. I like everyone see everyone doing the dust your shoulders off in the in the control room. I like it. I like it. Go to aclj.org right now. Be part of the organization if you can. All donations are matched and doubled today.
Jay Sekulow: Across our nation, the principles that have shaped America for generations are being attacked. The lives of innocent, unborn babies are still in jeopardy in numerous states across the country. Our education system is being hijacked as the left tries to strip parents of their God-given rights to decide where and what their children are taught. And religious liberty it's under attack, especially for Christians. It's moments like these when the temptation to give up grows stronger. But that's exactly when you have to decide, will I stand firm or will I just watch the waves tear away at our foundations? We need people who understand that religious liberty isn't just a political talking point. It's our God-given right. The stakes are higher than ever, but we are not helpless and we will not back down. Go to aclj.org/stand right now and have your tax-deductible gift doubled to stand with the ACLJ today. We've witnessed monumental legal victories from defending the 14th Amendment and protecting our sacred American right to vote, the overturning of Roe versus Wade, and standing up for the religious liberty of our kids and seniors. But even with the many historic wins we've achieved, the battle is far from over. The attacks on our constitutionally protected rights persist. Countless unborn babies remain in jeopardy and across the globe, innocent Christians are being targeted and killed across this country and around the world. This fight isn't just the ACLJ's, it's all of ours. It belongs to every American who wants to preserve the values and beliefs on which this nation was founded. None of the victories we've won would have been possible without the unwavering support of ACLJ members and ACLJ champions. It's been an honor to fight for you all these years. Join us in fighting for freedom. Have your donation doubled at aclj.org/freedom.
Logan Sekulow: A lot of you watching right now, not a lot of you calling. We got some phone lines open. 1-800-684-3110. Again, Mike Pompeo is going to be joining us in a little bit here talking about this new kind of bizarre twist, something we kind of thought was over, which was the Supreme Court leak of the Dobbs decision a couple of years ago. We never found out who it was, never got a final result, but we do know some of the consequences of the action. I think we need to remember this was just a few months ago. Here's Amy Coney Barrett talking to the House Appropriations Committee about what happened due to that leak just a few months before the actual decision was handed out.
Amy Coney Barrett: Um they have required me to uh my my children to think about and see things that children should not have to see or think about. One example is when threats to my life were particularly intense a few years ago around the time of the Dobbs leak. My security detail sent me home with a bulletproof vest and I carried it into my house, put it into my bedroom, dropped it down on a table, turned around, and my 12-year-old son was standing in the doorway of my bedroom. And he wanted to know what it was and why I had it. And I didn't know how to respond because maybe I lack imagination, but I didn't expect that performing this service was going to put me in the position of explaining to my children what a bulletproof vest was and why I had to wear one.
Will Haynes: So when you hear that, that that's uh something that was before the the House and the Senate when they had these uh these appropriations hearings and talking about the need for security of the Supreme Court. And uh when you start to think about that of the institutions of the United States and how important they are and how much trust has been degraded across the institutions of the United States. But things like this, this leaker that that we spent a lot of time on that was so unprecedented that that caused a lot of havoc around a Supreme Court decision that we knew was going to be chaotic as as it was anyways. Whenever there's a controversial opinion, uh a lot of people have a lot of things to say about it. But the entire purpose, it felt like of leaking that early before it came out, was trying to intimidate the court to change their mind.
Logan Sekulow: Yeah, which they can do by the way. You know, it's not like once they they've locked it in until it's published, it's all still kind of though they've already voted, they can change their vote. It happened originally
Will Haynes: Until it's published.
Logan Sekulow: when Roe versus Wade was decided. So it 's not uncommon. The what is uncommon, almost never, is it for it to leak and that be the push. The push is usually internally. It's usually the justices and their teams trying to work out a final decision and a final law. It's not usually public opinion. And of course then threatening behavior uh as we know Chuck Schumer, who I know we'll get into a little bit later, the Chuck Schumer obviously decided to unleash that whirlwind.
Will Haynes: Well, that's right. And you saw even before that leak, you saw politicians, Chuck Schumer, going forward and making these uh veiled threats of like you will rue the day. And And once again, this is a position that is confirmed and then serves uh in in time of good behavior. It is a lifetime appointment until that individual decides to step down from that position on the court. So there is no political consequence and should be no political consequence for our justice system as at any time. But when you saw these threats from politicians and then you saw this leak, what did you immediately see happen? You saw individuals trying to get into the homes of a Brett Kavanaugh to do what? To assassinate. To assassinate the Supreme Court Justice. And as Amy Coney Barrett was talking about there and she was sitting next to Elena Kagan, when they when they have these they're not super often, but a lot of times uh throughout history you'll have uh kind of a more conservative jurist and a more liberal jurist come together before these appropriations committees to talk about these issues. They're not normally heated, they're not normally politically charged. That's why they often don't make a lot of news. This one did because it was something so novel of how much the threats to the justices have degraded in the multiple years since then. It's not like this was a moment, a flash in the pan, and then people just got over it and it went back to relative normalcy. It became a a now uh persistent threat against an entirely uh independent body of our government.
Logan Sekulow: And let's talk about that.
Will Haynes: Third branch of government.
Logan Sekulow: Let's talk about that a little bit because I think we can look at the timeline here. Some of the talk of why this investigation may be heating up is also statute of limitations that may be coming into play here as we are approaching. By the way, it may feel like this just happened, but I'm going to play you this clip from Chuck Schumer and then give you a bit of a history lesson of where we were in the world when this happened. Go ahead, Chuck Schumer. And again, this was him talking about the Supreme Court justices in the decision power that was happening right around then.
Chuck Schumer: I want to tell you, Gorsuch, I want to tell you, Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price. You won't know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions.
Logan Sekulow: Yeah, again. So that was Chuck Schumer, which of course we know what led to it. And again, I want you to remember that that day was March 4th. Or I'm sorry. Yes, March 4th of 2020. What happened about 10 days later? The world shut down for a number of years. People got stuck inside. COVID happened. We were already threatened with it then, but that's when the shutdown happened was in mid March of 2020. Chaos started to ensue in the streets. The riots started happening. We had the George Floyd uh situation that happened just a few months later. The bubble up was beginning then. And yes, it has been 6 and a half years since then. Does it feel like that to anyone? No because time has moved at a rapid pace since then. It has moved in a very strange way since since March of 2020. None of that feels like it was distant memories.
Will Haynes: Like that was 6 years ago.
Logan Sekulow: Was 6 over 6 and a half years ago was that clip. If you would probably ask me right now, when did the Dobbs decision get over I probably said 3 years. And it's double that, 6 years. So you got to remember, the world kind of took a big turn at that point and we've never fully recovered. We're still dealing with the fallout, not necessarily of just the lockdowns, of just what became the most chaotic year of anyone's lives. And then of course the fallout from then and really the change in our mental state when it comes to the way we treat our political rivals. And of course this is just a bubble up. This was the beginning. We know what led after this, assassination attempts, assassination of Charlie Kirk last year, all of the things that have had happened, threats that we've all received much more than ever. For being pretty benign, for being pretty down the middle in terms of us always being honest with you, always talking to you, but that's not how it is. So you know what? Do I Am I excited somewhat that there is still this interest that they want to step up this inquiry and see if there is something criminal that happened? Yeah, because we can start to really look at a few things that really started skewing this country further and further apart. And And this is one of them for sure. Will
Amy Coney Barrett: Well, and I mean I'm just reading through this report that they're looking at in into criminal investigation into who the leaker is. And what makes this so different because unfortunately for the past decade or more at this point, leakers have become so prevalent in Washington DC that it it really is uh really catastrophic to what's going on to the way that our government is working. And you think back to all the things that James Comey did. He set up a mechanism to leak information to the press. And so yeah, it became so normalized that in some ways it shouldn't have been shocking that this happened at the Supreme Court, but it felt like it was insulated from the nastiness of the politics. Now not when it comes to the confirmations and what people have to say about their decisions, but you remember back to like who were the best friends of the court? Like known best friends were Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Justice Scalia. Two polar opposite judicial philosophies were best friends and they were known to vacation together because they were colleagues and they understood what the importance of their constitutional role was.
Logan Sekulow: And that usually was the fact also with clerks of the court. Everyone was very cordial, professional, almost to the point of uncomfortably professional. If you ever went to the Supreme Court where you were There was never a time where you felt truly like you know chill when you were going to visit the Supreme Court of the United States because there was a formality to it and there was a formality to the team and a formality to the staff that worked there. And I 'm talking about the staff from security when you checked in all the way up to the justices themselves. Um there was a bit of secrecy. There was a bit of quiet there. It was It did not feel like when you were visiting uh the capital or you were visiting any of the other locations in Washington DC, any of the other attractions if you will. Uh it was its own entity that had a bit more self-respect.
Amy Coney Barrett: And because of that, it was on purpose to show the respect of the law, the respect of the Constitution, the institution itself was saying we are taking our jobs in roles very seriously. Now it has been uh a place because of that that has gotten flak over the years of it's so secretive etcetera. But that's by design. That is because of showing we preserve the interest of the Constitution and the law in in taking that seriousness forward, that solemnity, that that sacredness of the Constitution was on display in the way that the Supreme Court operated. And so that's why it was such an egregious violation of trust when this leaker went forward. But now we're looking at this and I think it does. It is going to raise so many more questions about the separation of powers, if the Department of Justice even has the ability to bring charges. Now remember, this wasn't a classified document leak which there are numerous laws on the books about. Now could it be stealing of government documents, stealing of Yes, there are pathways, but it's still so unclear what a charge could even be in this case.
Logan Sekulow: It's a little blurry. Yeah, it feels like it should be federally illegal, you know. It smells of it if you will. Phone lines are open at 1-800 It does ring true a federal crime.
Will Haynes: Just rings true. Is that what you're trying to say?
Logan Sekulow: Phone lines are open for you. We are going to come back in just a moment and I want to take some calls. 1-800-684-3110. Mike Pompeo is also going to be joining us in the next segment. If you wanted to dip your toe back into the midterms, we'll do that with Secretary Pompeo about the fallout, what it could look like coming up. So again, if you're still uh feeling those uh feeling that pain, we'll we'll let you relive it a little bit in the next segment and then we're going to get back to it. And if you thought that Chuck Schumer you know was strong, had a lot to say back in 2020, there's some people coming for him. You're not going to guess who it is. We're right back.
Jay Sekulow: We've witnessed monumental legal victories from defending the 14th Amendment and protecting our sacred American right to vote, the overturning of Roe versus Wade and standing up for the religious liberty of our kids and seniors. But even with the many historic wins we've achieved, the battle is far from over. The attacks on our constitutionally protected rights persist. Countless unborn babies remain in jeopardy and across the globe, innocent Christians are being targeted and killed across this country and around the world. This fight isn't just the ACLJ's, it's all of ours. It belongs to every American who wants to preserve the values and beliefs on which this nation was founded. None of the victories we've won would have been possible without the unwavering support of ACLJ members and ACLJ champions. It has been an honor to fight for you all these years. Join us in fighting for freedom. Have your donation doubled at aclj.org/freedom. Across our nation, the principles that have shaped America for generations are being attacked. The lives of innocent, unborn babies are still in jeopardy in numerous states across the country. Our education system is being hijacked as the left tries to strip parents of their God-given rights to decide where and what their children are taught. And religious liberty it's under attack, especially for Christians. It's moments like these when the temptation to give up grows stronger. But that's exactly when you have to decide, will I stand firm or will I just watch the waves tear away at our foundations? We need people who understand that religious liberty isn't just a political talking point. It's our God-given right. The stakes are higher than ever, but we are not helpless and we will not back down. Go to aclj.org/stand right now and have your tax-deductible gift doubled to stand with the ACLJ today.
Logan Sekulow: Welcome back to Seculo. Phone lines are open and we're going to take a lot of calls in the back half because we have Secretary Pompeo on now. So we're going to have an open back half for you to have any point of this discussion, if you like what you hear with Secretary Pompeo or you want to talk about any of the other talking points that we've had today or throughout the week. I know some of you still licking the wounds, understandably. Give me a call 1-800-684-3110. Secretary Pompeo though is joining us and will can think of another voice that would be good to hear when you have these sort of uncertain times, if you will.
Will Haynes: That's right. Well, when you look at what happened uh this midterm election, a lot of the exit polling was saying it had to do with foreign policy, why people changed their votes or or decided to vote differently, whether or not uh polls are in exit polls are truly what what people was on people's mind or if their representative across the country. But the Iran war is something that came up uh very often. And what we saw is almost an immediate internal fighting amongst Republicans as typically happens in the fallout after some sort of political loss where you have the Vice President saying, look, it's it's because of the war that we lost. But then you have other people saying, well, you're not looking at the data fully. Uh it's not just that the war uh was happening, it's that it was the back and forth between diplomatic angle, the ceasefire, and almost the uncertainty that happened. Uh Mr. Secretary, as we look at at this and how the the midterms played out, uh how much do you think one that that that actually is what was uh uh vote a decisive voting reason, the the Iran war? And do you think it was because of indecision? Do you think it was because it existed in the first place? Uh just kind of looking back, I wanted to get your opinion on this.
Mike Pompeo: Well, it's great to be with you. Look, it's hard to know. This was a pretty resounding uh defeat for uh Republicans all across the country. Indeed in my home state, we'd like the Democratic governor and a a Democratic senator for the first time since 1932. Uh but we'll get back up off the floor. I'm convinced of it because we're right in the end. Our our principles, our policies are the the right ones for America. You know, as for the the war, war wars are never popular. One of the things I'm most proud of is that um we didn't engage in any wars um the first uh first Trump term. Um but Iran brought this on themselves. And And while undoubtedly the the wars today polls poorly, uh you know it's almost axiomatic that people vote their pocketbook, not wars, right? Not foreign policy. And I think that's probably going to prove true when the data comes out. We'll We'll see. Uh people were very concerned about this idea that gasoline prices are too high. That is in part because of the conflict because President Trump um wasn't able to bring this to a conclusion before the election. And so I think they're all all in that mix. Many things uh it's a broader set of causes for this defeat. We need to do the analysis and then uh remind ourselves about the things that the ACL uh the ACLJ stands for, right? These deep conservative principles that it stood for for so long. They'll serve our party and America well.
Amy Coney Barrett: Well, in into that point as well, we can we can quibble about data and what were people's voting things until for the rest of time and and people will. That is what people do. But I think the important question here is obviously when you start to look at it, one, I mean we've still firmly believe that taking it to the Iranian regime that has caused so much death and destruction of Americans for uh generations uh that it is the right move. And regardless of the political fallout that may have happened, but I also think looking forward um now that the President, the executive branch, which is the the author and and the branch that conducts foreign policy uh now has this uh very different brand of check in in the Congress. You You already see individuals that are are saying, hey, maybe Chuck Schumer shouldn't be the leader of the Senate. And those are the incoming senators um that have a very different view of American foreign policy, a very different view of American national security. Uh obviously you I'm not asking you to predict here, but navigating that forward of the executive branch, uh you have have been the Secretary of State. You understand the importance uh of American leadership. How difficult does that job become for the executive branch here, now knowing that they're already threatening subpoena after subpoena and investigation after investigation, but still leading the world when you have antagonist here at home?
Mike Pompeo: Yes, we experienced that in the first term. You'll recall for the first 2 years plus of the uh uh Trump administration uh when he was first elected, uh we were Russian assets, right? This was Russia, Russia, Russia, the hoax. Uh it's distracting. It can pull you off the mission. It causes you to have to respond to things. You'd rather spend your time thinking about how do I deliver good outcomes and security for the American people? And one of the great things about President Trump is he was able to remain incredibly focused. I'm confident he will here too. Um he's done so on Iran consistently. He understands that this remains the world's largest state sponsor of terror. And as he said uh Tuesday night uh or Wednesday morning after the election results came in, he said, look, I I'd do it again. Uh he did not let domestic political ideas put the American people's security at risk. And I don't think President Trump will ever do that. So I'm I I'm I'm convinced he will stay the course. He will continue to focus on making good decisions, sound security decisions. And if that is politically unpopular in the moment, he is willing to suffer those slings and arrows to deliver on what history will I think regard as the right answer to deny the Iranian regime. Conventional weapons that would have protected a nuclear weapons program is something that I think President Trump will go down in history as being highly regarded for all across the political spectrum.
Logan Sekulow: What about speaking of the political spectrum? What about a message I would say to our you know our supporters, our viewers really, the people who have just joined in sort of the political world over the last few years? There's so many people who have just engaged really in the Trump years and I would say maybe even the last 2 years, really in the post Biden years. And they see such a resounding defeat. And maybe they are not used to the pendulum swinging and seeing this. But I guess sort of a message to those people who have become a little disenfranchised, maybe not only with their own political party, but maybe have become disenfranchised with it when they go oh no, they they wake up in the morning and they're seeing this. But knowing obviously God's in control, but but that they may have a bit um a bit more stress. There's a bit more panic uh that I see in people's voices right now. And understandable to some extent, but it's nothing that a lot of people who have been engaged, including yourself, haven't been through many times before.
Mike Pompeo: Look, I'm I'm perfectly positioned to respond to this. I I was a member of the Tea Party class of 2010, 80 strong Republicans. Uh we thought we were going to control uh the political scene for years and years and years. It just turns out um that it's more complicated than that. Uh God is in fact in control. And uh the message that we bring, the policies, I hope the the character and decency of the people that we elect will demonstrate to the broad political spectrum that we have the right approach, that big government socialism, high tariffs and taxes, these are not good things for the American people. And uh it comes back quickly when you get the message right and you get the policy, the deliverables right as well. And I'm convinced it's only it's only those of us who are conservative uh that can deliver that for the United States of America. And we will.
Will Haynes: I I did just want to jump in there because I did want to say I almost brought that up, Mr. Secretary, that I remember uh producing this show, talking to staffers in your office of this brand new freshman congressman uh from Kansas that we were going to have on the show, uh Mike Pompeo. And one, excited to have you on, but that's how long we've been working since 2010. We have been uh speaking with you when you were a freshman congressman in the Tea Party movement when uh by the way Democrats were never going to win another election after that one. And we've seen how the world operates.
Mike Pompeo: And that's exactly right. Well, bless you. It's been a long 16 years. Um many good things have transpired since then. And I I'm confident God is in control and we'll we'll get this back and we'll get America ahead in the right direction. Well.
Logan Sekulow: Thank you so much, Secretary Pompeo, for joining us today. And thanks for everyone joining us the first half hour. We do have a second half hour coming up. If you don't get us on your local station, we broadcast live 12 to 1:00 p.m. Eastern time. That's live. We do the show live. Find us aclj.org, YouTube, on Rumble, on Facebook. We're broadcasting live on all those platforms. But of course, archived on however you get your podcast, we're available each and every day immediately as the show ends. They all go up there so you can go find us there. But the second half hour is live and we want you to join us. So if you don't get us on your local station and you're watching what if you if you're watching us, you're good. I don't think there's a place we can view just a half an hour.
Will Haynes: I don't think so.
Logan Sekulow: I don't think so. So come join us. We got a second half hour coming up, but hey, help us stand strong today. Go to aclj.org. Be a part of this new campaign. You need to do it. It's a good time. aclj.org.
Jay Sekulow: Across our nation, the principles that have shaped America for generations are being attacked. The lives of innocent, unborn babies are still in jeopardy in numerous states across the country. It's moments like these when the temptation to give up grows stronger. But that's exactly when you have to decide, will I stand firm or will I just watch the waves tear away at our foundations? Go to aclj.org/stand right now and have your tax-deductible gift doubled today.